Hi Karen, I really related to your story and found your work to be the most helpful in reconciling Scripture with the affirming viewpoint. However, I still struggle with traditionalist and progressive positions.
Here is my dilemma:
1) Traditionalists cannot prove that love, even romantic love, between the sexes is wrong. (I can see nowhere in scripture or nature why the sex of the person one loves matters.) This is a strong point of the affirming view.
2) Progressives cannot prove that sex between the sexes isn't wrong. This is the weakness of the affirming view. It seems like the modern affirming view is simply that: modern. Homosexuality, it seems, has always carried a stigma as being a perversion of the "real thing." So, on what basis should that idea change?
I don't know if this is the kind of question you're looking for in this post! But thank you for reading!
Hi Kayla, thanks so much for leaving a comment. I spent many years wrestling with reconciling my faith and sexuality too. I empathize with the challenge of that! As you point out, there’s different ways of looking at it. For me, living congruently with my convictions was the most helpful for peace of mind. That meant I spent about 20 years of my adult life in single, celibacy. I didn’t want to be single, but when I went against my conscience, I was miserable. I found great peace in embracing my life of celibacy and pursuing ministry work. I did not try dating again or marriage until I had come to a fully affirming conviction. I describe how I come to an affirming view in my book (as you know). I realized I hadn’t been taught properly how the biblical authors and Jesus handle law/mandates and ethics. I also realized I didn’t have a well-developed theology of marriage. The more I came to understand Christian marriage the more I became affirming. But each person has to listen to the Spirit. If someone is feeling conflicted, I recommended not pursuing a relationship. It’s not good for peace of mind, nor is it likely for the relationship to succeed. But we can continue to discern over time. I came back to the question various times to discern and continue learning (though it could also be exhausting to do so and I took long breaks from that).
56 yo gay male. I returned to faith almost two years ago. I am from a literalist background when it comes to the Bible. I quit church around age 13 believing God did not want me or love me etc. now I’m back and progressive (United church of Christ) and a whole hearted beloved of God. I’m SO OVER romantic relationships with other people. I have never had any good relationship experiences. I’m VERY happy now to be…..self satisfied so to speak. God is my Father, my provider and my Lover. When I “get my groove on” I sometimes listen to my favorite gospel music, I pray, I worship, I love and I have even cried. God is always with me.
I didn’t really have a point or a question, just sharing…
Thanks for sharing Cliff! I’m so glad you found faith again and comfort in God’s unconditional love and acceptance. What a joy to know we are beloved by God. I’m sorry to hear about your difficult relationship experiences. If you are open to it, I would be interested to hear what you experienced that made them bad or painful. In retrospect, what do you think went wrong in them? Either way, I glad you have found contentment in singleness.
Well, I did not grow up with any semblance of what a good relationship is. From the age of three I was in the midst of adultery, divorce, adoption, sexual molestation, constant moving, changing schools, physical abuse, emotional abuse, self loathing and on and on. How to maintain a healthy relationship was never nurtured in me. My first ltr, two years off and on two years solid, started when I was 19. Clueless, self absorbed, and obsessed I perused a guy til he gave in. He was an alcoholic. I made him unhappy and he drank and persued gratification outside the relationship. He died a couple years ago and I found out two months too late but the guy he met after me is the same guy he was with when he died. So I hold hope that he found peace and happiness in a long term relationship
My actual legal marriage was one of convenience and capitulation. He was alcoholic also. It didn’t even last a year. So to my embarrassment I have an actual legal divorce on my “life record”
I am not relationship material
That being said as I grow and heal with God who knows if there will be a blessing of a relationship in my future. It’s not something I seek or hope for but I will keep all possibilities open with my awesome loving God
My issue with being LGBTQ is the why. Was I really born this way or am I a result of early sexual trauma. I’ve talked to many others and I have never met any one of us LGBTQers that were not traumatized sexually. Are we a result of that or were we “targeted” because it was seen in us? Are all LGBTQers sexually traumatized but not all sexually traumatized are LGBTQ? If so/not why?
Cliff, thank you for sharing more of your story. I'm so sorry for the abuse you suffered. I want to take that little boy in my arms and tell him how beloved he is and protect him from all of that. Given what you have been through, it's remarkable that you are where you are today. I'm so glad you are now experiencing that sense of belovedness in God.
It sounds like the breakdown in your romantic relationships was not just one-sided, but that you were in relationships with people who brought their own dysfunction, including alcholism. Even if you become healthy yourself in interpersonal connection, it takes two to tango. And so, a relationship with someone else who is also healthy is essential. There's a great book called "Us" by Terrence Real that discusses the impact of childhood trauma on our romantic relationships and how to navigate that.
As for why people are gay, the best scientific evidence points to the impact of prenatal hormones. For example, mothers with gay sons have higher rates of male fetal protein antibodies than mothers of straight sons. In the past, the ex-gay movement promoted the idea that abuse made people gay. But there's not much evidence for that. In fact, studies show that the majority of gay men have *not* been sexually abused. That said, gay/bisexual men report rates of childhood sexual abuse more similar to women than straight men. Given that gay people also have higher rates of gender nonconformity that is evident very early in childhood, it's likely that predators may observe those differences. That said, it's possible that a small percentage of men have been affected by childhood sexual abuse in a way that shapes their future relationship choice toward the same, particularly bisexual men. But it's important to realize that the research indicates that does not apply to most gay men or women.
Wow I did not know all that! Thank you for sharing. The book “Us” sounds interesting, I’ll look into that. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me🥰
Even though I'm retired from being a pastor I still have pastoral conversations with people from time to time. Last night in one such conversation the issue of the difficulty of forgiveness came up. I've noticed over the years that it's a very common problem for people.
As a pastor, I would love to hear all the things you have learned from your years of counsel. I am sure you have much wisdom to offer, including from your own years of marriage. It’s interesting that you mention forgiveness. Sally and I recently spoke at a church where we shared about our understanding of marriage. I talked about how marriage is a microcosm of the gospel - a cycle of repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. Over and over.
Wy wife and I are currently in a mixed orientation marriage after her coming out as a late life lesbian two years ago. I know of very few other stories of fully affirming couples in a similar situation. All the mixed orientation couples are couples who separate/divorce after one comes out, or are side B couples who feel called to such a marriage. My wife is also not out to many people. Our marriage is strong and healthy, but sometimes I just feel alone in this journey we are on. Do you know of any media or other resources for people in our situation?
Hi Duane, thanks for sharing a comment. I hear what you are saying regarding affirming couples in mixed orientation marriages. I have also observed that most mixed orientation couples are side B. Affirming couples in mixed orientation marriages can have a tendency to divorce. Although, I have met several affirming couples who stay together where one person is bisexual. I also know a few couples here and there who have chosen to stay together despite one person being gay because they love their spouse and value the marriage despite the additional challenges a mixed orientation marriage might bring. If you haven't already you might find it helpful to become involved in a community like CenterPeace (centerpeace.net).
But I think it would also be helpful to know what specifically the needs are pertinent to your particular relationship. For example, what is the main desire? Is it that you feel lonely in certain aspects of your marriage or experiencing difficulties being married to a lesbian and you are wanting to talk to someone who can relate to those particular difficulties? Are you the one who is primarily lonely in the journey or is also your wife? Is the issue marital or is it that one or both of you want more connection with affirming Christians or affirming LGBTQ folk? The answers to these types of questions can help with determining what resources would most be helpful.
Right now, there aren't any difficulties. Mostly just looking for others in a similar situation to talk to - in order to keep the marriage that way! We both want more connection to affirming couples - and we are working on that! My wife also had signed up for the Centrepeace learning program last fall - but that was postponed. I'm in the Reformation Project Leadership Development Cohort currently, so that helps too!
Are there good resources for affirming gay folks that defend monogamous marriage/ provide a well thought out rebuttal to the polyamory arguments from groups like QCF? Additionally, are there specific resources to help us think through more thoughtful, critical responses from an affirming Christian lens to Queer Theory and its transgressive radicalism? I’m an affirming gay Christian in a committed monogamous relationship. I don’t align with my really progressive counterparts on these topics. I often feel intellectually and convictionally lonely on these issues… they consider me far too conservative. Is anyone else talking about these issues?
Hi Richard, thank you for your question. I prefer to frame things more in terms of constructive vision than debate/rebutal. I think many of us are growing weary of polarizations. So I don't have an interest in going after people who practice polyamory. But I do love contemplating the meaning of marriage as a Christian. For me and many other LGBTQ Christians there's a desire to pursue life long covenanted monogamy. Organizations that would align with that are CenterPeace (centerpeace.net) and The Reformation Project (reformationproject.org) to name a couple. In fact, CenterPeace has a Faithful Love couples retreat for LGBTQ Christians who want to strengthen their relationship (which I help to facilitate).
You might also enjoy my 8 module course on Scripture and Sexual Ethics, which is about sexual ethics broadly and also includes a segment discussing polyamory/polygamy (https://reformationproject.org/scripture-sexual-ethics/).
Thanks so much for these resources. I haven’t had the chance to dive into your Scripture and Sexual Ethics course yet, but it’s been on my list for a while now… I’m really looking forward to it.
I completely understand your caution about not wanting to feed the fire of polarization. That’s both a reasonable and admirable attitude to hold in these tense times. At the same time, I find myself curious—how does providing theological or philosophical critique of contemporary ideologies like polyamory or Queer Theory differ in principle from the kinds of thoughtful engagement you’ve already modeled? For example, your review of Rachel Gilson’s book or your work pushing back on certain Side B or non-affirming theological frameworks in your own writing. Those critiques were thoughtful, measured, and full of grace. You didn’t vilify anyone. And you still offered meaningful alternatives and carefully highlighted inconsistencies and hermeneutical gaps.
I really appreciate your emphasis on casting a constructive vision for sexuality and relationships. It’s all too easy to spend our energy shouting down what we’re against, instead of highlighting what we’re for. But I also wonder… isn’t a core part of discipleship learning how to carefully and critically navigate the cultural waters we’re already immersed in? Shouldn’t spiritual formation include honest, non-shaming ways of discerning where the dominant narratives around us—particularly the ones most prevalent in LGBT spaces—may be failing to lead us toward wholeness?
More and more, I encounter gay Christians who, in deconstructing the theological structures that once harmed them, end up deconstructing everything—truth, authority, moral boundaries—simply because those concepts are associated with the Christian tradition. And I can’t help but wonder- who is helping them rebuild? Who is teaching us how to hold onto Jesus and walk with him wisely through all this?
I’ve heard from multiple gay Christian friends who feel a quiet, persistent pressure to acquiesce to ideas they’re not entirely comfortable with- whether it’s polyamory or the more extreme expressions of Queer Theory- just to avoid being ostracized, to find a partner, or to fit in. And it strikes me that there’s a real vacuum of thoughtful discipleship in these spaces. There’s a void where formation should be happening.
If we’re going to rightly call out Christian nationalism, misogyny, and the harmful ideologies operating in mainstream christian culture in the name of building a more beautiful and faithful Church—shouldn’t we also be naming and engaging with the theological and philosophical currents affecting LGBT Christians as well?
Hi Richard, I relate to much of what you are saying. I agree that there's a need for thoughtful discipleship. I also have a heart for those who are deconstructing but seem to get stuck there. The way that I am trying to make a difference is through my writing, as well as through real relationships. I co-founded a mentoring program called Bakos Project that I hope will be helpful: https://bakosproject.com/
As for my book reviews and such that critique. Yes, I believe in dialoguing and responding to theology that I have concerns about. But I think there's a difference between defending myself from someone's arguments that I beleive are misrepresenting me and other LGBTQ folk and going on the offensive to attack other groups of people. Purity culture takes a policing approach that is unhealthy and counterproductive to gospel driven discipleship. I don't feel a need to police polyamorists. But I do want to talk about what a good marriage looks like. I do want to talk about sexual ethics within a constructive theology. That doesn't mean I can never comment on polyamory, but if I do so (as with my video course Scripture and Sexual Ethics), it's only within a more comprehensive constructive theology.
You write: "But I also wonder… isn’t a core part of discipleship learning how to carefully and critically navigate the cultural waters we’re already immersed in?"
Spiritual discernment and critical thinking skills are so important. I was trained as a spiritual director in the Ignatian tradition that has an emphasis on discernment. I've done teaching around that, but would like to do more. This is a better approach in the long run. Helping people to become discerning people so that when they encounter an ideology that is not life-giving, they can more readily recognize that. This would also include a better understanding of the gospel. Basic Christian catechism is sorely lacking in a lot of churches these days.
And you write: "I can’t help but wonder- who is helping them rebuild? Who is teaching us how to hold onto Jesus and walk with him wisely through all this?" This is where community becomes important. CenterPeace and Bakos Project are great places for LGBTQ folk to get involved in community where discipleship can happen. Also role models. One of the initiatives with Bakos Project is to highlight LGBTQ role models. I also want to do that with LGBTQ couples and marriages.
The next CenterPeace LGBTQ spiritual formation retreat is at the end of May. I encourage you and anyone else you think might benefit to sign up! I will be there. https://www.centerpeace.net/tapestry
Anyway, I think we are pretty much on the same page. Are there things you feel called to do in regards to the concerns you have raised?
Thanks so much for this, Karen. And I apologize for the delay in my reply… I’ve been needing to periodically step back from digital spaces for the sake of my soul and well-being. This is feeling more essential than ever lately.
I’m actually very interested in the Bakos Project. I’ve been looking into it and am waiting for the application period. It sounds perfect. SO… thank you for the timely reminder!
This topic feels very personal for me. I feel deeply passionate about articulating what discipleship and spiritual reconstruction can look like for LGBT Christians… especially for those of us who still hold a high view of Scripture and long for a grounded, honest spiritual life rooted in Christian tradition. My partner and I both came to an affirming perspective largely through the careful theological work of leaders like yourself, alongside others such as Justin Lee and Matthew Vines. We actually met through the Side B community, so this shift wasn’t casual or reactionary… we really wanted to be thoughtful, slow, and intentional.
One of our shared concerns as we first began exploring affirming theology, was how often this conversation gets co-opted into dismantling any meaningful sexual ethic at all. We weren’t looking for libertinism. We didn’t want to throw out the idea of boundaries, covenant, or spiritual formation. We wanted a vision of sexual ethics that preserved the beauty of Christian discipleship. I knew we needed a theology that didn’t force us to choose between truth and integrity, or between tradition and authenticity.
I know there are many others, especially within Side B circles, who feel similarly cautious. Their biggest hesitations aren’t really theological… they’re pastoral. They see affirming spaces that, in their view, seem to too quickly abandon the language of discipline, sacrifice, or formation altogether. There’s a real fear that affirming theology will force them to abandon the faith completely. I know your work, along with organizations like Reformation Project and CenterPeace, offers a very different vision… one that is robust, serious, and pastorally rich. But I do think this is a critical frontier! The question I’m perpetually wrestling with is: how do we reach the moderates, both gay and straight, who might be open but are still very cautious for good reason? People who need to see that an affirming theology doesn’t mean discarding sexual discipleship, but deepening it?
Thanks again for taking the time to thoughtfully respond!
Hi Richard, yes, please apply to Bakos! Your heart and vision is exactly what Bakos is about. You write, "I feel deeply passionate about articulating what discipleship and spiritual reconstruction can look like for LGBT Christians… especially for those of us who still hold a high view of Scripture and long for a grounded, honest spiritual life rooted in Christian tradition." Amen!
I'm so encouraged to hear from LGBT folk like you who are passionate about their faith and have a heart for the community. We are out there, and it's a growing movement! Let's stay connected and work together!
Hi Karen, I really related to your story and found your work to be the most helpful in reconciling Scripture with the affirming viewpoint. However, I still struggle with traditionalist and progressive positions.
Here is my dilemma:
1) Traditionalists cannot prove that love, even romantic love, between the sexes is wrong. (I can see nowhere in scripture or nature why the sex of the person one loves matters.) This is a strong point of the affirming view.
2) Progressives cannot prove that sex between the sexes isn't wrong. This is the weakness of the affirming view. It seems like the modern affirming view is simply that: modern. Homosexuality, it seems, has always carried a stigma as being a perversion of the "real thing." So, on what basis should that idea change?
I don't know if this is the kind of question you're looking for in this post! But thank you for reading!
Hi Kayla, thanks so much for leaving a comment. I spent many years wrestling with reconciling my faith and sexuality too. I empathize with the challenge of that! As you point out, there’s different ways of looking at it. For me, living congruently with my convictions was the most helpful for peace of mind. That meant I spent about 20 years of my adult life in single, celibacy. I didn’t want to be single, but when I went against my conscience, I was miserable. I found great peace in embracing my life of celibacy and pursuing ministry work. I did not try dating again or marriage until I had come to a fully affirming conviction. I describe how I come to an affirming view in my book (as you know). I realized I hadn’t been taught properly how the biblical authors and Jesus handle law/mandates and ethics. I also realized I didn’t have a well-developed theology of marriage. The more I came to understand Christian marriage the more I became affirming. But each person has to listen to the Spirit. If someone is feeling conflicted, I recommended not pursuing a relationship. It’s not good for peace of mind, nor is it likely for the relationship to succeed. But we can continue to discern over time. I came back to the question various times to discern and continue learning (though it could also be exhausting to do so and I took long breaks from that).
56 yo gay male. I returned to faith almost two years ago. I am from a literalist background when it comes to the Bible. I quit church around age 13 believing God did not want me or love me etc. now I’m back and progressive (United church of Christ) and a whole hearted beloved of God. I’m SO OVER romantic relationships with other people. I have never had any good relationship experiences. I’m VERY happy now to be…..self satisfied so to speak. God is my Father, my provider and my Lover. When I “get my groove on” I sometimes listen to my favorite gospel music, I pray, I worship, I love and I have even cried. God is always with me.
I didn’t really have a point or a question, just sharing…
😊
Thanks for sharing Cliff! I’m so glad you found faith again and comfort in God’s unconditional love and acceptance. What a joy to know we are beloved by God. I’m sorry to hear about your difficult relationship experiences. If you are open to it, I would be interested to hear what you experienced that made them bad or painful. In retrospect, what do you think went wrong in them? Either way, I glad you have found contentment in singleness.
Well, I did not grow up with any semblance of what a good relationship is. From the age of three I was in the midst of adultery, divorce, adoption, sexual molestation, constant moving, changing schools, physical abuse, emotional abuse, self loathing and on and on. How to maintain a healthy relationship was never nurtured in me. My first ltr, two years off and on two years solid, started when I was 19. Clueless, self absorbed, and obsessed I perused a guy til he gave in. He was an alcoholic. I made him unhappy and he drank and persued gratification outside the relationship. He died a couple years ago and I found out two months too late but the guy he met after me is the same guy he was with when he died. So I hold hope that he found peace and happiness in a long term relationship
My actual legal marriage was one of convenience and capitulation. He was alcoholic also. It didn’t even last a year. So to my embarrassment I have an actual legal divorce on my “life record”
I am not relationship material
That being said as I grow and heal with God who knows if there will be a blessing of a relationship in my future. It’s not something I seek or hope for but I will keep all possibilities open with my awesome loving God
My issue with being LGBTQ is the why. Was I really born this way or am I a result of early sexual trauma. I’ve talked to many others and I have never met any one of us LGBTQers that were not traumatized sexually. Are we a result of that or were we “targeted” because it was seen in us? Are all LGBTQers sexually traumatized but not all sexually traumatized are LGBTQ? If so/not why?
How do you feel about it?
Hope you respond
Thanks!
Cliff
Cliff, thank you for sharing more of your story. I'm so sorry for the abuse you suffered. I want to take that little boy in my arms and tell him how beloved he is and protect him from all of that. Given what you have been through, it's remarkable that you are where you are today. I'm so glad you are now experiencing that sense of belovedness in God.
It sounds like the breakdown in your romantic relationships was not just one-sided, but that you were in relationships with people who brought their own dysfunction, including alcholism. Even if you become healthy yourself in interpersonal connection, it takes two to tango. And so, a relationship with someone else who is also healthy is essential. There's a great book called "Us" by Terrence Real that discusses the impact of childhood trauma on our romantic relationships and how to navigate that.
As for why people are gay, the best scientific evidence points to the impact of prenatal hormones. For example, mothers with gay sons have higher rates of male fetal protein antibodies than mothers of straight sons. In the past, the ex-gay movement promoted the idea that abuse made people gay. But there's not much evidence for that. In fact, studies show that the majority of gay men have *not* been sexually abused. That said, gay/bisexual men report rates of childhood sexual abuse more similar to women than straight men. Given that gay people also have higher rates of gender nonconformity that is evident very early in childhood, it's likely that predators may observe those differences. That said, it's possible that a small percentage of men have been affected by childhood sexual abuse in a way that shapes their future relationship choice toward the same, particularly bisexual men. But it's important to realize that the research indicates that does not apply to most gay men or women.
Wow I did not know all that! Thank you for sharing. The book “Us” sounds interesting, I’ll look into that. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me🥰
Even though I'm retired from being a pastor I still have pastoral conversations with people from time to time. Last night in one such conversation the issue of the difficulty of forgiveness came up. I've noticed over the years that it's a very common problem for people.
As a pastor, I would love to hear all the things you have learned from your years of counsel. I am sure you have much wisdom to offer, including from your own years of marriage. It’s interesting that you mention forgiveness. Sally and I recently spoke at a church where we shared about our understanding of marriage. I talked about how marriage is a microcosm of the gospel - a cycle of repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. Over and over.
Wy wife and I are currently in a mixed orientation marriage after her coming out as a late life lesbian two years ago. I know of very few other stories of fully affirming couples in a similar situation. All the mixed orientation couples are couples who separate/divorce after one comes out, or are side B couples who feel called to such a marriage. My wife is also not out to many people. Our marriage is strong and healthy, but sometimes I just feel alone in this journey we are on. Do you know of any media or other resources for people in our situation?
Hi Duane, thanks for sharing a comment. I hear what you are saying regarding affirming couples in mixed orientation marriages. I have also observed that most mixed orientation couples are side B. Affirming couples in mixed orientation marriages can have a tendency to divorce. Although, I have met several affirming couples who stay together where one person is bisexual. I also know a few couples here and there who have chosen to stay together despite one person being gay because they love their spouse and value the marriage despite the additional challenges a mixed orientation marriage might bring. If you haven't already you might find it helpful to become involved in a community like CenterPeace (centerpeace.net).
But I think it would also be helpful to know what specifically the needs are pertinent to your particular relationship. For example, what is the main desire? Is it that you feel lonely in certain aspects of your marriage or experiencing difficulties being married to a lesbian and you are wanting to talk to someone who can relate to those particular difficulties? Are you the one who is primarily lonely in the journey or is also your wife? Is the issue marital or is it that one or both of you want more connection with affirming Christians or affirming LGBTQ folk? The answers to these types of questions can help with determining what resources would most be helpful.
Right now, there aren't any difficulties. Mostly just looking for others in a similar situation to talk to - in order to keep the marriage that way! We both want more connection to affirming couples - and we are working on that! My wife also had signed up for the Centrepeace learning program last fall - but that was postponed. I'm in the Reformation Project Leadership Development Cohort currently, so that helps too!
I’ll give some thought as to other couples that I can connect you with.
Are there good resources for affirming gay folks that defend monogamous marriage/ provide a well thought out rebuttal to the polyamory arguments from groups like QCF? Additionally, are there specific resources to help us think through more thoughtful, critical responses from an affirming Christian lens to Queer Theory and its transgressive radicalism? I’m an affirming gay Christian in a committed monogamous relationship. I don’t align with my really progressive counterparts on these topics. I often feel intellectually and convictionally lonely on these issues… they consider me far too conservative. Is anyone else talking about these issues?
Hi Richard, thank you for your question. I prefer to frame things more in terms of constructive vision than debate/rebutal. I think many of us are growing weary of polarizations. So I don't have an interest in going after people who practice polyamory. But I do love contemplating the meaning of marriage as a Christian. For me and many other LGBTQ Christians there's a desire to pursue life long covenanted monogamy. Organizations that would align with that are CenterPeace (centerpeace.net) and The Reformation Project (reformationproject.org) to name a couple. In fact, CenterPeace has a Faithful Love couples retreat for LGBTQ Christians who want to strengthen their relationship (which I help to facilitate).
You might also enjoy my 8 module course on Scripture and Sexual Ethics, which is about sexual ethics broadly and also includes a segment discussing polyamory/polygamy (https://reformationproject.org/scripture-sexual-ethics/).
On Substack, I recently came across a gay man, Brian Dumont, writing about monogamy and marriage that you might resonate with: https://marriageafterequality.substack.com/
If you haven't already, I would encourage you to get involved in the CenterPeace community of LGBTQ folk: https://www.centerpeace.net/
In the coming months, I plan to do a series on LGBTQ marriages, interviewing couples. Stay tuned for that!
Karen,
Thanks so much for these resources. I haven’t had the chance to dive into your Scripture and Sexual Ethics course yet, but it’s been on my list for a while now… I’m really looking forward to it.
I completely understand your caution about not wanting to feed the fire of polarization. That’s both a reasonable and admirable attitude to hold in these tense times. At the same time, I find myself curious—how does providing theological or philosophical critique of contemporary ideologies like polyamory or Queer Theory differ in principle from the kinds of thoughtful engagement you’ve already modeled? For example, your review of Rachel Gilson’s book or your work pushing back on certain Side B or non-affirming theological frameworks in your own writing. Those critiques were thoughtful, measured, and full of grace. You didn’t vilify anyone. And you still offered meaningful alternatives and carefully highlighted inconsistencies and hermeneutical gaps.
I really appreciate your emphasis on casting a constructive vision for sexuality and relationships. It’s all too easy to spend our energy shouting down what we’re against, instead of highlighting what we’re for. But I also wonder… isn’t a core part of discipleship learning how to carefully and critically navigate the cultural waters we’re already immersed in? Shouldn’t spiritual formation include honest, non-shaming ways of discerning where the dominant narratives around us—particularly the ones most prevalent in LGBT spaces—may be failing to lead us toward wholeness?
More and more, I encounter gay Christians who, in deconstructing the theological structures that once harmed them, end up deconstructing everything—truth, authority, moral boundaries—simply because those concepts are associated with the Christian tradition. And I can’t help but wonder- who is helping them rebuild? Who is teaching us how to hold onto Jesus and walk with him wisely through all this?
I’ve heard from multiple gay Christian friends who feel a quiet, persistent pressure to acquiesce to ideas they’re not entirely comfortable with- whether it’s polyamory or the more extreme expressions of Queer Theory- just to avoid being ostracized, to find a partner, or to fit in. And it strikes me that there’s a real vacuum of thoughtful discipleship in these spaces. There’s a void where formation should be happening.
If we’re going to rightly call out Christian nationalism, misogyny, and the harmful ideologies operating in mainstream christian culture in the name of building a more beautiful and faithful Church—shouldn’t we also be naming and engaging with the theological and philosophical currents affecting LGBT Christians as well?
Hi Richard, I relate to much of what you are saying. I agree that there's a need for thoughtful discipleship. I also have a heart for those who are deconstructing but seem to get stuck there. The way that I am trying to make a difference is through my writing, as well as through real relationships. I co-founded a mentoring program called Bakos Project that I hope will be helpful: https://bakosproject.com/
As for my book reviews and such that critique. Yes, I believe in dialoguing and responding to theology that I have concerns about. But I think there's a difference between defending myself from someone's arguments that I beleive are misrepresenting me and other LGBTQ folk and going on the offensive to attack other groups of people. Purity culture takes a policing approach that is unhealthy and counterproductive to gospel driven discipleship. I don't feel a need to police polyamorists. But I do want to talk about what a good marriage looks like. I do want to talk about sexual ethics within a constructive theology. That doesn't mean I can never comment on polyamory, but if I do so (as with my video course Scripture and Sexual Ethics), it's only within a more comprehensive constructive theology.
You write: "But I also wonder… isn’t a core part of discipleship learning how to carefully and critically navigate the cultural waters we’re already immersed in?"
Spiritual discernment and critical thinking skills are so important. I was trained as a spiritual director in the Ignatian tradition that has an emphasis on discernment. I've done teaching around that, but would like to do more. This is a better approach in the long run. Helping people to become discerning people so that when they encounter an ideology that is not life-giving, they can more readily recognize that. This would also include a better understanding of the gospel. Basic Christian catechism is sorely lacking in a lot of churches these days.
And you write: "I can’t help but wonder- who is helping them rebuild? Who is teaching us how to hold onto Jesus and walk with him wisely through all this?" This is where community becomes important. CenterPeace and Bakos Project are great places for LGBTQ folk to get involved in community where discipleship can happen. Also role models. One of the initiatives with Bakos Project is to highlight LGBTQ role models. I also want to do that with LGBTQ couples and marriages.
The next CenterPeace LGBTQ spiritual formation retreat is at the end of May. I encourage you and anyone else you think might benefit to sign up! I will be there. https://www.centerpeace.net/tapestry
Anyway, I think we are pretty much on the same page. Are there things you feel called to do in regards to the concerns you have raised?
Thanks so much for this, Karen. And I apologize for the delay in my reply… I’ve been needing to periodically step back from digital spaces for the sake of my soul and well-being. This is feeling more essential than ever lately.
I’m actually very interested in the Bakos Project. I’ve been looking into it and am waiting for the application period. It sounds perfect. SO… thank you for the timely reminder!
This topic feels very personal for me. I feel deeply passionate about articulating what discipleship and spiritual reconstruction can look like for LGBT Christians… especially for those of us who still hold a high view of Scripture and long for a grounded, honest spiritual life rooted in Christian tradition. My partner and I both came to an affirming perspective largely through the careful theological work of leaders like yourself, alongside others such as Justin Lee and Matthew Vines. We actually met through the Side B community, so this shift wasn’t casual or reactionary… we really wanted to be thoughtful, slow, and intentional.
One of our shared concerns as we first began exploring affirming theology, was how often this conversation gets co-opted into dismantling any meaningful sexual ethic at all. We weren’t looking for libertinism. We didn’t want to throw out the idea of boundaries, covenant, or spiritual formation. We wanted a vision of sexual ethics that preserved the beauty of Christian discipleship. I knew we needed a theology that didn’t force us to choose between truth and integrity, or between tradition and authenticity.
I know there are many others, especially within Side B circles, who feel similarly cautious. Their biggest hesitations aren’t really theological… they’re pastoral. They see affirming spaces that, in their view, seem to too quickly abandon the language of discipline, sacrifice, or formation altogether. There’s a real fear that affirming theology will force them to abandon the faith completely. I know your work, along with organizations like Reformation Project and CenterPeace, offers a very different vision… one that is robust, serious, and pastorally rich. But I do think this is a critical frontier! The question I’m perpetually wrestling with is: how do we reach the moderates, both gay and straight, who might be open but are still very cautious for good reason? People who need to see that an affirming theology doesn’t mean discarding sexual discipleship, but deepening it?
Thanks again for taking the time to thoughtfully respond!
Hi Richard, yes, please apply to Bakos! Your heart and vision is exactly what Bakos is about. You write, "I feel deeply passionate about articulating what discipleship and spiritual reconstruction can look like for LGBT Christians… especially for those of us who still hold a high view of Scripture and long for a grounded, honest spiritual life rooted in Christian tradition." Amen!
I'm so encouraged to hear from LGBT folk like you who are passionate about their faith and have a heart for the community. We are out there, and it's a growing movement! Let's stay connected and work together!
Thank you so much! Well, I look very forward to it! I’ll apply when registration opens!